Wednesday, September 26, 2012

Pay Lay-Clergy



With all my blogs about the LDS corporate empire...
...You may be saying, “Just because the Church has a lot of money doesn’t mean its leaders are wrong.”

Of course not.  But what if the top leaders get a lot of money because of their positions?

“Ridiculous!” You could retort.  “They might get a small stipend, but they do not earn a living from the church.”

Are you sure?  

If you knew your prophet, the apostles and others were raking it in, would that change your perspective?

The church keeps the lid on its finances very tightly closed.  They do not report income or expenses, salaries or any information except as absolutely necessary in each state where they operate businesses.  The reason, they claim, is that they don’t want to reveal the donations of church members.  However, a lot of the finances are found in records held by individual states where the subsidies of the “Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” incorporate in each location.

And by searching these kinds of state databases, a lot of very interesting information about Profits of Prophets are revealed.
A quick search on the Corporation Wiki websites shows that the top leaders of the Mormon church do have high level (and very probably high paying) positions among the many multi-billion dollar entities under the LDS church umbrella corporation.  A few of the more prominent examples include:

Thomas S Monson holds the position of Chairman of LDS Business College, Director of BYU-Idaho , Chairman & Director of the Corporation of the President and probably more, if one is willing to investigate all the links between the brethren at the corporation wiki.
See

A Chairman of a US college earns an average salary well over $100,000 per year.  A director on the board of trustees of a university earns close to six-figures, and the President of a corporation, especially that is the umbrella corporation holding over $30 Billion in subsidies, well, that would earn you seven figures.  Granted Monson does not work full time at any of these positions, but one can rest assured he gets a good salary, otherwise he couldn’t afford his driver and the Security edition Audi A8 that with full upgrades runs close to $1 million to buy new. 



You can find similar information about the Directorships, Chairmanships, Presidents of this and that on other top LDS executive General Authorities. Just quick searches can show you these:
And search parcel # 09-31-332-017-0000  at


What does this mean?

It means that when the church invested billions in the City Creek Center, it was a business move that not only provided jobs to local construction crews, merchants and retailers, it probably provided high-level executive positions for church leaders, who cut the ribbon to open their pride and joy.



There’s a video of a Gala where it is clearly announced that former Church CEO/President/LDS Prophet Gordon Hinckley served as Chairman of the Deseret Management Corp, parent company of Beneficial (at the time). Current President/Prophet Thomas Monson is named too.

The 1%-er type salary-positions the ecclesiastical leaders hold in the Church Corporation should be disappointing at the very least to those that believe helping the poor and feeding the hungry takes priority over being able to sell Rolex watches at the Church Mall.

"But I never knew this!" 

Of course not!  Sheeple don't need to know how the shepherders get their robes.



25 comments:

  1. David,

    Wondering where our Tithing goes? Thank you for opening the discussion, I am wondering if this coverage went far enough? http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money

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  2. Clever title that only a few of us will get.

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    1. (He-he yeah. Made me chuckle.)

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  3. This is not new information. I think anyone who looked for it would find it pretty easily.

    But since you just despite the Church so much, why do you want to be a member?

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    1. I'm going to project because who can know the mind of another?

      In reading nearly everything on MormonThink over the past seven months, it seems logical that any person with integrity who is seeking truth would have some very serious questions about the Book of Mormon.

      Most, I suspect, don't have the time or inclination to spend the hours necessary to uncover the may "challenges" of this belief system. After all, this behemoth has evolved into a corporate entity that can employ the most powerful media psychology to keep and attract membership. It has bills to pay.

      Don't think for a second that those "holding the keys" don't look at the bottom line daily. This thing is much more about balance sheets than anything.

      But at what cost? People who seek, will find. It's all available within a few keystrokes and some effort to make sense of the history of this religion. People that are truly looking, oftentimes don't like what they find. They understand the place this religion has had but may want to move on. As elder Holland said, "its a nuclear option".

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    2. Charles, where is mormonthink wrong?

      You've been challenged before but still haven't answered.

      Put up or shut up.

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  4. Charles, you are a robot--no brain.

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  5. And if you look at the $1.4 billion in humanitarian aid given worldwide for the 26 year reporting period, that works out to about $5.38 in humanitarian aid per member per year. Anyone who can't get angry at the way this hierarchical church has structured itself, is really and truly missing the larger picture.

    There is far to much talent and incredible human capacity within us, to be subjects of control of those that would profit from our work simply because they claim knowledge they can't possibly possess. I personally believe the internet and our information age will continue to cause these people much grief, as it should. Just think back a few years. This type of free exchange of ideas wasn't possible. And we are ever evolving and coming to grips with the larger issues we face.

    Believing that we are destined for some upcoming rapture is not only a waste of time, but really denigrates all the progress we've made within the millions of lifetimes of research in every scientific field, aggregated and made available for our understanding. The mysteries of our universe and planet are far more interesting than a pile of writings foisted on ignorant people who knew little of the world in which they found themselves. We just need to latch on and go.

    I think every LDS Church member should read the Woodruff journals. That pretty well sums up just how superstitious, zealous and extremist these people were. As far as I know, the Church hasn't published any of them, nor do they teach this "factual" history. Woodruff lived and wrote about his experience almost every day of his 60+ years in this religion. What is available is a great read....for those who enjoy history.

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    1. You seem to be missing the point here--you are missing the fact that the church has given $1.4 billion in aid over 26 years. That is 1.4 billion dollars more than an organization that hasn't. As I read these posts it's becoming more apparent to me that most of you here are tied up in the nitty gritty details but have problems seeing the forest from the trees.

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    2. ” the church has given $1.4 billion in aid over 26 years.”

      Yes, and collected in the same period $70 billion or more in donations. for profit companies donate a higher percent of their income to actual charitable causes than does the lds church.

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    3. Are you referring to tithing? The church has never claimed that tithing money goes to charity. It goes to buildings, manuals, etc, etc. and the general authorities are not lay clergy. Fast offering money is set aside for charity.

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  6. As I read this I only see assumptions based on zero facts. You assume that because a church leader is the head of an organization then he is making so and so much money. If you were to insert figures it would help make this go alot further. As it is, it's mere speculation. And as such, any person can speculate on just about any subject. This lacks substance.

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    1. If only the church would publish its financials so we could be sure. But it insists on hiding is corporate dealings. It knows members would find discomfort.

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  7. It is actually supposition to say that xxx gets a corporate wage, let alone one that compares to a secular corporation. Without the books open, we simply have no way of knowing. They may get a large wage, they may get a small wage, they may be donating their time to the boards on which they sit.

    Unless I knew for sure, I would not accuse them of what this post charges. I understand your hurt feelings. You were not treated kindly. You cannot understand why they chose to hold a court over what you feel are honest questions and opinions. I understand that. I just don't think it wise to turn into an accuser. That is not the way to peace.

    If it is found to be true, the truth can come out and stand on its own.

    In another thread I read here today, I posted a link to a petition, wherein the members of the church are asking for a full financial disclosure from the church. I would like to post it here, as well:
    http://bycommonconsent.org/

    Not to be confused with bycommonconsentdotcom, which is a blog.

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  8. It seems to me that Mormon Inc, could save close to $900,000 in buying a standard Audi A8 if he's going to roll with the windows down anyway.

    The Utah Food Bank could make good use of that money saved, I'm sure of it.

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  9. For what it is worth and take it as you will, I worked with a woman who worked many years at the LDS Church HQ. She was a financial secretary who kept the books on specifics for members of the Qof12 and First Presidency. She personally processed the checks sent for services rendered for the Brethren sitting on many different corporate governing boards. She would get pretty upset when discussing the obscene amounts of money she saw pass her way to the Brethren. We are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars for a very few days work for these men. This along with many other instances of payment to GA's and the Brethren for very little work done. Not to mention the incredible nepotism and corporate favoritism/cronyism within the Church Corporation.

    Anyway, take it as you will, let the criticism fly what have you. I know her history and what she went through. So don't for once pretend the corporate structure is not alive and well and that these men who are in power within the church do not take huge amounts of money to buy what they want to look like they do and have what they have. They are definately human and carnal and they have given themselves to Babylon and the love of money.

    So many commenters on this entry and others defend the corporate structure and capitalism and the system we see today and how it is the best we can hope for. Well I am simple but if the scriptures whichever you choose to follow ALL preach against the love of money and getting gain so to speak, the terrible nature of bankers and money changers and terrible inequality then you cannot tell me that it is ok to turn the blind eye and say "well they have to run this large organization".

    Well then, the simple answer is to tear down the organization, sell all you have to the poor and follow the Christ. Easier said than done right! But that is what has been asked of us to be true disciples of Christ. If any of these called by men "apostles" and general authorities sincerely call them selves true disciples of Christ, why on earth do they dress themselves in such costly raimant and apparel and continue workings towards getting gain, and adorning thier great and spacious buildings?

    Anwser me that or shut up!

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    1. Adam, thank you for your witness. I would have preferred to read what the woman, herself, would have written so that it is a true testimony instead of hearsay, but you are giving some of the evidence I felt was lacking. I think we, the people of the church, have a God-given right to know the truth of these things.

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  10. When it comes down to it, should we be distracted from the business of serving others or spend our time worrying about how much the Church elders are raking in. I am pretty sure when judgement day comes we won't be wishing we'd spent more time calling those dogs to task and less time taking care of the widows, orphans, and helping our neighbors learn the good news of the Gospel. I think we should keep our eye on the ball. We are supposed to give our money freely with love. If those that spend it make bad choices it's not ours to worry about.

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    1. I won't hide my head in the sand and feel good that funds are misused just because I was conditioned since birth to trust old men with ties. We have a say. We need to speak up. billions are at stake.

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    2. Wouldn't you want for your church-even the corporate end of it- to be doing what YOU'RE DOING? To care for the poor, to clothe the naked, to feed the hungry? They give back less than ONE PERCENT of what they take in (if you use the Newsweek stats...we have NOTHING else because "by common consent" was done away with decades ago). That's less than they ask of us, and they are a multi-billion dollar corporation.

      I refuse to pay tithing to a church that isn't going to use it to do what they promise.

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    3. This is so easy to Godwin it's not even funny.

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  11. The truth will not expose itself.

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  12. Jesus called the dogs of his day to task.

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